Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
OK, fair enough.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Proposal: Historical theming for Medieval section
i) "The armies of the Hundred Years War 1337-1453"
Players do not choose their own armies but have them allocated from a pre-tournament draw.
There are twelve possible armies - English Continental 1320-1414 (early); English Continental 1415-1455 (later); Scots in Britain 1385 (early), no Scots Isles allies allowed; Scots in Britain 1404-1437 (later), no Scots-isles allies allowed; Medieval Welsh 1405; Medieval French 1350-1399; Medieval French 1400-1455 (later); Low Countries 1300-1450; Free Company 1444; Medieval Burgundy 1430-1449 (early); Medieval Portuguese 1367-1390; and Medieval Castilian 1410-1450, no allies allowed.
If there are only 10 players in the division then either the two earlier, or the two later, English and French lists could be withdrawn (or one of these and one of the Scottish lists) so that there are just ten possible armies when the draw is made.
ii) The Wars of the Roses 1455-1487
Divisions must contain an even number of players.
Assuming a division of 10 players, and using a pre-tournament draw, 5 players will be allocated to the WotR Lancastrian army and 5 players will be allocated to the WotR Yorkist army. In the first half of the season, each Lancastrian player will play a DAG match against each of the 5 Yorkist players. In the second half of the season the same players will play each other for a second time using the following user-made scenarios - Northampton 1460, Towton 1461, Barnet 1471, Tewkesbury 1471 and Bosworth Field 1485. Players will use the armies from their own faction in these matches.
Just to be clear, in this format, players from the same faction will not fight each other.
i) "The armies of the Hundred Years War 1337-1453"
Players do not choose their own armies but have them allocated from a pre-tournament draw.
There are twelve possible armies - English Continental 1320-1414 (early); English Continental 1415-1455 (later); Scots in Britain 1385 (early), no Scots Isles allies allowed; Scots in Britain 1404-1437 (later), no Scots-isles allies allowed; Medieval Welsh 1405; Medieval French 1350-1399; Medieval French 1400-1455 (later); Low Countries 1300-1450; Free Company 1444; Medieval Burgundy 1430-1449 (early); Medieval Portuguese 1367-1390; and Medieval Castilian 1410-1450, no allies allowed.
If there are only 10 players in the division then either the two earlier, or the two later, English and French lists could be withdrawn (or one of these and one of the Scottish lists) so that there are just ten possible armies when the draw is made.
ii) The Wars of the Roses 1455-1487
Divisions must contain an even number of players.
Assuming a division of 10 players, and using a pre-tournament draw, 5 players will be allocated to the WotR Lancastrian army and 5 players will be allocated to the WotR Yorkist army. In the first half of the season, each Lancastrian player will play a DAG match against each of the 5 Yorkist players. In the second half of the season the same players will play each other for a second time using the following user-made scenarios - Northampton 1460, Towton 1461, Barnet 1471, Tewkesbury 1471 and Bosworth Field 1485. Players will use the armies from their own faction in these matches.
Just to be clear, in this format, players from the same faction will not fight each other.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Gday Pete and all
I have just counted up the amount of armies available in each period and the numbers are very numerous indeed
Classical------------107
Medieval-----------133
Darkages-----------78
Imperial------------60
As you can see Medieval has a massive amount and most players would probably chose from about 20 or 30 armies. Classical 107,Darkages 78and Imperial 60.My point here is if we had a themed league we could cut this back to 15-20 armies or less. Darkages we could have Fall of the Roman empire in the West and have the Barbarian conquest of the Western Empire. There are a good 15 to 20 armies to choose from there.I will put up a proposal later this week regards Darkages. At the momment most players are choosing the Middle Eastern armies and those with High Dailami Content. If you use Crusaders it will be very difficult to counter these armies. Perhaps we could have Early Dark ages as a theme and when WFTS comes out Mid and Later Darkages.Do we need less armies or should we keep it the way it is with those who use the Super armies dominating the leader board?Should we even out the contest and restrict the armies we can choose? What do we all think?
Petes Proposal is a sound one and i would fully support a change to the current army selection method.
Cheers Turk
I have just counted up the amount of armies available in each period and the numbers are very numerous indeed
Classical------------107
Medieval-----------133
Darkages-----------78
Imperial------------60
As you can see Medieval has a massive amount and most players would probably chose from about 20 or 30 armies. Classical 107,Darkages 78and Imperial 60.My point here is if we had a themed league we could cut this back to 15-20 armies or less. Darkages we could have Fall of the Roman empire in the West and have the Barbarian conquest of the Western Empire. There are a good 15 to 20 armies to choose from there.I will put up a proposal later this week regards Darkages. At the momment most players are choosing the Middle Eastern armies and those with High Dailami Content. If you use Crusaders it will be very difficult to counter these armies. Perhaps we could have Early Dark ages as a theme and when WFTS comes out Mid and Later Darkages.Do we need less armies or should we keep it the way it is with those who use the Super armies dominating the leader board?Should we even out the contest and restrict the armies we can choose? What do we all think?
Petes Proposal is a sound one and i would fully support a change to the current army selection method.
Cheers Turk
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
A very interesting statistic there, Mark. I didn't realise that the Medieval period had that many armies - and there is still "Oaths of Fealty" to come.
In terms of recruitment for Season 10, the Dark Ages trailed behind the other three sections a bit and only had 26 applications to join. With the release of "Wolves From the Sea" shortly, and before Season 11 starts, I think the Dark Ages section will get a lot more interest. The Fall of the Western Roman Empire theming that you have mentioned would be a really popular choice - there are some fascinating match-ups between the late Roman armies and their barbarian successors (Huns, Visigoths, Gepids etc). I would certainly be interested in entering that competition even though I don't normally enter the Dark Ages section in LOEG.
With regards to innovation in LOEG, I think there is a balance to be struck. Traditionally LOEG has offered players various time periods in which they can choose from a very wide number of armies. I think that element should still be retained to a certain extent - so if we still have 4 sections in Season 11 then maybe two of them might be "traditional LOEG", one of them could be historically themed (and I would vote for your Dark Ages idea) and one of them could be based on smaller divisions with "mirror matches" (another very good idea that has been suggested by Anders and Steve in the last week or so). A balance like that in the competition would really freshen things up - and as time went by new ideas for historical theming could be developed to further broaden the range of challenges that LOEG has to offer.
In terms of recruitment for Season 10, the Dark Ages trailed behind the other three sections a bit and only had 26 applications to join. With the release of "Wolves From the Sea" shortly, and before Season 11 starts, I think the Dark Ages section will get a lot more interest. The Fall of the Western Roman Empire theming that you have mentioned would be a really popular choice - there are some fascinating match-ups between the late Roman armies and their barbarian successors (Huns, Visigoths, Gepids etc). I would certainly be interested in entering that competition even though I don't normally enter the Dark Ages section in LOEG.
With regards to innovation in LOEG, I think there is a balance to be struck. Traditionally LOEG has offered players various time periods in which they can choose from a very wide number of armies. I think that element should still be retained to a certain extent - so if we still have 4 sections in Season 11 then maybe two of them might be "traditional LOEG", one of them could be historically themed (and I would vote for your Dark Ages idea) and one of them could be based on smaller divisions with "mirror matches" (another very good idea that has been suggested by Anders and Steve in the last week or so). A balance like that in the competition would really freshen things up - and as time went by new ideas for historical theming could be developed to further broaden the range of challenges that LOEG has to offer.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Yes Pete i was amazed at the amount of different Medieval armies and once OOF comes out theres another40 or so in there.I think that once WFTS is released there will be a big resurgance in interest in the Darkage period in LOEG.There are some interesting armies in that list and plenty of tournament oppertunities.I may start a tournemt Fall of the West to see what interest their would be in that period of the Darkages It would be nice to hear from other LOEG players to see what they think?
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I do like themed tournament/campaigns but I have to say I would prefer loeg to remain open.
Playing about ten games with and against similar armies would be repetitive, in my view.
Part of the fun in an open tournament for me is trying my army against a wide range of opposing armies.
I do of course agree with the initial premise that some match ups can inspire unfought draws, but would prefer making some armies unselectable to counter this. If everyone likes to take dailami or Swiss armies because theyre very powerful, and they are one-dimensional, then maybe the solution is to exclude these and encourage players to take more... interesting and balanced armies?
That said, maybe an expansive loeg along the lines SP mentions below, where some divs r open, some themed and some mirrored, might be best as players can enter the divs whose structure interests them most, or try something different.
Playing about ten games with and against similar armies would be repetitive, in my view.
Part of the fun in an open tournament for me is trying my army against a wide range of opposing armies.
I do of course agree with the initial premise that some match ups can inspire unfought draws, but would prefer making some armies unselectable to counter this. If everyone likes to take dailami or Swiss armies because theyre very powerful, and they are one-dimensional, then maybe the solution is to exclude these and encourage players to take more... interesting and balanced armies?
That said, maybe an expansive loeg along the lines SP mentions below, where some divs r open, some themed and some mirrored, might be best as players can enter the divs whose structure interests them most, or try something different.
‘I go North, to the swords and the siege,
That yet for a while rivers may run clean and birds build their nests,
Ere Night comes.’
That yet for a while rivers may run clean and birds build their nests,
Ere Night comes.’
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Yes, at least half of what LOEG offers each season should be the traditional format, I believe. And I would also say that if, say, medieval was themed in one season then it should revert to the traditional format for the next season so that across every two seasons of LOEG you are still offering to players the full-range of what is available.Aristides wrote:I do like themed tournament/campaigns but I have to say I would prefer loeg to remain open.
Playing about ten games with and against similar armies would be repetitive, in my view.
Part of the fun in an open tournament for me is trying my army against a wide range of opposing armies.
That said, maybe an expansive loeg along the lines SP mentions below, where some divs r open, some themed and some mirrored, might be best as players can enter the divs whose structure interests them most, or try something different.
The second of my historical theming proposals for the War of the Roses is probably as focussed as you would want to make things and it may not be suitable for LOEG in any case. Up to now the norm has been that everyone in a division has played everyone else whereas my War of the Roses idea breaks from that norm. I originally came up with the idea for my next medieval invitation event and I can add a team element to it as well (Lancastrians versus Yorkists) if I end up using it myself. There may also be a problem with using player-designed scenarios in LOEG inasmuch as some players might struggle to download them correctly.
I think that maps are the main problem to do with stalemates. I am doing some work on that at the moment and should have stuff to share at the weekend. In terms of armies, you could just remove some armies from the lists, or you could set limits on the number of "superior" troops they could use in their selections.I do of course agree with the initial premise that some match ups can inspire unfought draws, but would prefer making some armies unselectable to counter this. If everyone likes to take dailami or Swiss armies because theyre very powerful, and they are one-dimensional, then maybe the solution is to exclude these and encourage players to take more... interesting and balanced armies?
Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I don't think changing LOEGs army-choices that much is a good idea, since the amount of players isn't that big anyway. Most do not play all eras, so adding more eras merely means splintering the amount of players even more.
A tourney separate from LOEG could work like that, but(to me anyway), the point of LOEG is that a huge amount of players play in the same tourney to match their skills. The more eras there are, the less players there will be per era.
The problem with alternating themes is that some people want to play a specific army that may not be available in that theme. Not all people have all or even most of the expansions, some have just one or two, and if a theme is added that prevents them from using any of the armies they want, it's a drag to them, meaning less players in LOEG.
You could make a smaller, "Wild Card" tourney, that has plenty of changing rules. Like only a certain era or theme, and more importantly, that all players have to choose the same terrain type(Everyone chooses Mixed always, or very open or very crowded etc). This way people know the rules in advance and will pick an army they know won't be crippled in the "forced" terrain. This should help against the unwanted stalemates a bit. (although nothing will help in a situation where a bow army is parked on a hill anyway )
A tourney separate from LOEG could work like that, but(to me anyway), the point of LOEG is that a huge amount of players play in the same tourney to match their skills. The more eras there are, the less players there will be per era.
The problem with alternating themes is that some people want to play a specific army that may not be available in that theme. Not all people have all or even most of the expansions, some have just one or two, and if a theme is added that prevents them from using any of the armies they want, it's a drag to them, meaning less players in LOEG.
You could make a smaller, "Wild Card" tourney, that has plenty of changing rules. Like only a certain era or theme, and more importantly, that all players have to choose the same terrain type(Everyone chooses Mixed always, or very open or very crowded etc). This way people know the rules in advance and will pick an army they know won't be crippled in the "forced" terrain. This should help against the unwanted stalemates a bit. (although nothing will help in a situation where a bow army is parked on a hill anyway )
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I am not sure anyone is suggesting that LOEG should have more sections ("eras") at the moment, although as new expansions begin to be released again then how the armies are distributed between Classical, Imperial, Dark Age and Medieval will have to be looked at again. And just maybe Medieval will have to divided into "Early" and "Late" periods to give LOEG an extra section.Tiavals wrote:I don't think changing LOEGs army-choices that much is a good idea, since the amount of players isn't that big anyway. Most do not play all eras, so adding more eras merely means splintering the amount of players even more.
A tourney separate from LOEG could work like that, but(to me anyway), the point of LOEG is that a huge amount of players play in the same tourney to match their skills. The more eras there are, the less players there will be per era.
The problem with alternating themes is that some people want to play a specific army that may not be available in that theme. Not all people have all or even most of the expansions, some have just one or two, and if a theme is added that prevents them from using any of the armies they want, it's a drag to them, meaning less players in LOEG.
You could make a smaller, "Wild Card" tourney, that has plenty of changing rules. Like only a certain era or theme, and more importantly, that all players have to choose the same terrain type(Everyone chooses Mixed always, or very open or very crowded etc). This way people know the rules in advance and will pick an army they know won't be crippled in the "forced" terrain. This should help against the unwanted stalemates a bit. (although nothing will help in a situation where a bow army is parked on a hill anyway )
But I think you are touching on an important point with regards to the number of participants in LOEG. At the moment each section averages around 30 entrants (Dark Ages only had 26 this time). I actually think we could recruit quite a few more than this if we pursued a more active recruitment policy in future. What do I mean by this? Basically that we need to do much more than just open up 4 recruitment threads in the LOEG forum and hope that we get sufficient numbers for a viable competition.
I found out some interesting things about recruitment when I was building my FOG: It's a Knock-out 2" tournament last year. First of all, sending a personal PM (not a round-robin PM) to as many players as possible has very positive results. This is not that time-consuming to do. All you need to do is draw up a standard invitation and then copy and paste it into the individual PM. Particular effort should be made to contact players from the previous season who may not be playing quite as regularly as they once did. Secondly, and this is something all LOEG players can help with, there are a lot of people playing FOG online who have never entered LOEG. You can get a glimpse of who they are from the FOG challenge screen. Some of their challenges are closed but many of them are open. If in the period just prior to recruitment opening, and during the time when recruitment is open, established LOEG players could pick up some of these open challenges and invite the players into LOEG while you are playing a match then you can get very positive results indeed. These sort of friendly games can really act as "ice-breakers" and the new player can ask questions about LOEG (what standard it is, the format etc) and they also get to feel that they know somebody in the competition who they can ask for help. This is how I built my KO competition and it was easy to recruit new players in this way. I also sent individual PM invitations to newer players who had put closed challenges on the system - I did not get that many replies from these, so it was less successful, but they all did seem to have current Slitherine accounts even if they were not actively using them at that time. I am compiling a statistic at the moment - every time I log onto FOG I make a note of new, non-LOEG players who have put challenges on the system. Since last Friday evening there have been 43 such players!
I think if LOEG players as a group were more active in the recruitment period we could rapidly increase the number of players in each section to 40 and above and this would improve the competition for everybody and make LOEG feel "special" again.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
What I find most interesting about all these proposed changes is how is it to be decided what changes to be made.
Would it be a vote by all players, decided by Pantherboy (creator of the LoEG) or the ones running it at the moment (that's Bagration, Turk and me [I hope I'm not part of a coup d'état! ]). After Erics removal, there's a kind of vacuum in that area, or isn't it? Am I missing something here?
?
Would it be a vote by all players, decided by Pantherboy (creator of the LoEG) or the ones running it at the moment (that's Bagration, Turk and me [I hope I'm not part of a coup d'état! ]). After Erics removal, there's a kind of vacuum in that area, or isn't it? Am I missing something here?
?
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Well, Steve has asked for people to contribute ideas. That is all I am doing. So what I expect to happen is that, at a certain point, Steve will say "Thanks very much, gents" and close this thread and then he will sit down and draw up the new format.voskarp wrote:What I find most interesting about all these proposed changes is how is it to be decided what changes to be made.
Would it be a vote by all players, decided by Pantherboy (creator of the LoEG) or the ones running it at the moment (that's Bagration, Turk and me [I hope I'm not part of a coup d'état! ]). After Erics removal, there's a kind of vacuum in that area, or isn't it? Am I missing something here?
?
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I'll be crafting my post soon. I'm just awaiting for slitherine to grant me the privilege for setting up polls. My intent is to make a single cohesive proposal with explanations for why I'd like to do certain things and then get players to vote. That doesn't mean I will follow the vote but it will provide me with a view of the communities feelings. Different aspects will be voted on seperately.
Cheers,
Steve
Cheers,
Steve
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Great, sounds like the right way to do it.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Proposal
Adjudication
All matches that are not completed by the closing date of the league will be adjudicated so that the league tables are fully completed.
In addition, players are offered the use of the following system (i.e. it is not compulsory to use it). The purpose of it is to allow reliable players to deal with situations where an opponent has "disappeared" from the competition, the underlying premise being that players who sign up for tournaments are actually available to play their matches throughout the duration of the tournament . . .
Players may post their first public challenge to an opponent in the appropriate “Communications” thread marking it "first challenge".
If a player does not receive a response to this challenge within 7 days they may immediately issue a second public challenge in the appropriate “Communications” thread marking it "second challenge".
If there is no response from the opponent to this second challenge within 7 days then the player should then promptly notify the tournament organisers.
The tournament organisers will then record the match as “pending adjudication”.
The match will automatically be awarded to the player who has tried to get it played unless the other player takes appropriate action to fulfil the fixture before the closing date of competition is reached. A more rigorous application of this idea would see a first adjudication point set at the half-way stage of the competition and a second adjudication point set at the closing date of the competition. Any match dealt with at the first adjudication point must have been "pending adjudication" for at least 14 days.
Adjudication
All matches that are not completed by the closing date of the league will be adjudicated so that the league tables are fully completed.
In addition, players are offered the use of the following system (i.e. it is not compulsory to use it). The purpose of it is to allow reliable players to deal with situations where an opponent has "disappeared" from the competition, the underlying premise being that players who sign up for tournaments are actually available to play their matches throughout the duration of the tournament . . .
Players may post their first public challenge to an opponent in the appropriate “Communications” thread marking it "first challenge".
If a player does not receive a response to this challenge within 7 days they may immediately issue a second public challenge in the appropriate “Communications” thread marking it "second challenge".
If there is no response from the opponent to this second challenge within 7 days then the player should then promptly notify the tournament organisers.
The tournament organisers will then record the match as “pending adjudication”.
The match will automatically be awarded to the player who has tried to get it played unless the other player takes appropriate action to fulfil the fixture before the closing date of competition is reached. A more rigorous application of this idea would see a first adjudication point set at the half-way stage of the competition and a second adjudication point set at the closing date of the competition. Any match dealt with at the first adjudication point must have been "pending adjudication" for at least 14 days.
Last edited by stockwellpete on Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Proposal
Administration
i) There should be a main competition thread that contains the rules of competition, the current line up of sections and divisions and the current LOEG ratings. This thread should be "stickied" and "locked" so that only the main organiser/secretary has access to it. It should also be used for important announcements while the competition is in progress.
ii) There should be separate threads for issuing challenges and posting results.
iii) The Organiser/Secretary/Convenors should enter the results on the spread sheets, not the players.
iv) Recruitment threads should be marked "Closed" when a section is full up.
v) Once recruitment threads are closed, new "Reserve list" threads should be opened.
vi) the LOEG forum needs to be kept tidy and obsolete threads need to be deleted at the end of each season.
Administration
i) There should be a main competition thread that contains the rules of competition, the current line up of sections and divisions and the current LOEG ratings. This thread should be "stickied" and "locked" so that only the main organiser/secretary has access to it. It should also be used for important announcements while the competition is in progress.
ii) There should be separate threads for issuing challenges and posting results.
iii) The Organiser/Secretary/Convenors should enter the results on the spread sheets, not the players.
iv) Recruitment threads should be marked "Closed" when a section is full up.
v) Once recruitment threads are closed, new "Reserve list" threads should be opened.
vi) the LOEG forum needs to be kept tidy and obsolete threads need to be deleted at the end of each season.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Proposal
The development of conventions rather than rules
A convention is a voluntarily agreed mode of behaviour that is generally accepted as beneficial to the tournament and which players will try to adhere to (more or less) during their participation in the event. I would suggest just three that could be emphasised by the tournament organisers during the recruitment phase and again at the very start of the tournament . . .
i) players start their schedule of matches promptly once the competition is open.
ii) players who have entered more than one section try to play evenly across those sections rather than playing them consecutively.
iii) players should complete matches within one month of the first turn
The development of conventions rather than rules
A convention is a voluntarily agreed mode of behaviour that is generally accepted as beneficial to the tournament and which players will try to adhere to (more or less) during their participation in the event. I would suggest just three that could be emphasised by the tournament organisers during the recruitment phase and again at the very start of the tournament . . .
i) players start their schedule of matches promptly once the competition is open.
ii) players who have entered more than one section try to play evenly across those sections rather than playing them consecutively.
iii) players should complete matches within one month of the first turn
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I really like this one. To many times have I clicked Season 9 threads instead of Season 10.stockwellpete wrote:Proposal
Administration
i) There should be a main competition thread that contains the rules of competition, the current line up of sections and divisions and the current LOEG ratings. This thread should be "stickied" and "locked" so that only the main organiser/secretary has access to it. It should also be used for important announcements while the competition is in progress.
ii) There should be separate threads for issuing challenges and posting results.
iii) The Organiser/Secretary/Convenors should enter the results on the spread sheets, not the players.
iv) Recruitment threads should be marked "Closed" when a section is full up.
v) Once recruitment threads are closed, new "Reserve list" threads should be opened.
vi) the LOEG forum needs to be kept tidy and obsolete threads need to be deleted at the end of each season.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I ran this statistic for a week - I have collected the names of 55 non-LOEG players who are playing FOG online. I think these players are our main target group in terms of actively building LOEG for the next season.stockwellpete wrote: I am compiling a statistic at the moment - every time I log onto FOG I make a note of new, non-LOEG players who have put challenges on the system. Since last Friday evening there have been 43 such players!
EDIT: another way to reach new players is to look in the forum and find non-LOEG players who are either starting threads and asking questions or who are joining in ongoing discussions. There are lots of players like this (just check the forums now).
Last edited by stockwellpete on Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
Proposal
Scheduling
The tournament shall be of strictly three months duration commencing on February 1st, June 1st and October 1st each year. There will be a close season of one month between each tournament.
Scheduling
The tournament shall be of strictly three months duration commencing on February 1st, June 1st and October 1st each year. There will be a close season of one month between each tournament.
Re: Drawn games and other new ideas for LOEG . . .
I'm just writing to say:
1) I agree with all the proposals SP has made so far on this thread.
2) We do need a fix for the Dailami problem. We need a balance of armies in Dark Ages LOEG, rather than having all, or almost all, Islamic ones.
The issue with Dailami is that if the map is dense terrain, they just dominate; in open terrain, they are still very competitive. And given that, as SP has noted, many supposedly "open" maps have a lot of funny terrain features, why would you choose anything other than Dailami?
I have a simple proposal for Dark Ages LOEG: no army can have more than 4 armoured impact MF.
You can take as many impact MF as your army list allows, but only 4 armoured and the rest protected. Protected Dailami are a less scary proposition, although still quite effective and useful troops. My historical justification would be that mountain people might be hardy and tough fighters, but unlikely to be able to afford armour for all their warriors.
1) I agree with all the proposals SP has made so far on this thread.
2) We do need a fix for the Dailami problem. We need a balance of armies in Dark Ages LOEG, rather than having all, or almost all, Islamic ones.
The issue with Dailami is that if the map is dense terrain, they just dominate; in open terrain, they are still very competitive. And given that, as SP has noted, many supposedly "open" maps have a lot of funny terrain features, why would you choose anything other than Dailami?
I have a simple proposal for Dark Ages LOEG: no army can have more than 4 armoured impact MF.
You can take as many impact MF as your army list allows, but only 4 armoured and the rest protected. Protected Dailami are a less scary proposition, although still quite effective and useful troops. My historical justification would be that mountain people might be hardy and tough fighters, but unlikely to be able to afford armour for all their warriors.