Attack! 2018

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viking123
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Attack! 2018

Post by viking123 »

After a successful singles competition at Attack! this year, thoughts are turning to what we might do next year.
Attack! should be around the same date next or possibly a week later. This will be confirmed by the Devizes and District Wargames Group later.
The possible theme will be: -
Points: - 900 points
Format – Singles competition with 4 x 3hour 15minute games on player set terrain or 4 x 3 hour games on pre-set terrain.
Period - Early 16th century Europe, Date 1494-1555
Armies: -
Maximillian Imperial,
Italian Wars French,
Trastamaran Spanish,
Italian States,
Italian Wars Venetian,
German States,
Early Henrician English,
Later Henrician English,
Scottish,
Border Reivers,
Irish,
Anglo Irish,
Peasant Wars (Not Hungarian),
Caroline Imperialists,
North African States and
Early Ottoman Turkish

Venue: Devizes School, The Green, Devizes, Wiltshire SN10 3AG
Fee: TBA but at least £20.
Closing date for entries will be Friday 29th June 2018 – this might be extended by a week but down to the Devizes & District Wargames Group
List checker: - TBC
Amendments: - There are three options on the amendments we can use: -
1. Use the full update options when published – a new set of updates have published for use at Britcon (copy attacked).
2. Use the proposed amendments other than the Battle Group Auto-break points
3. Use the proposed amendments being used at the Southampton Round of the Southern League this year: -
• Artillery hit mounted on 5+
• Artillery can no longer shoot through friendly LF
• Light artillery can move as part of a division
• Captured Artillery removed in JAP phase
• For every base of heavy or medium artillery 6 bases of Foot battle troops must be taken (Later Ottoman Turks and N African States are exempt from this restriction)

In respect to pre-set terrain the idea would be for several players to prepare pre-set maps before the competition and bring them and the terrain to the competition. This stops concerns of one person making all the decision. Pre-set terrain will give us all more time to look at the rest of the show and spend our money.

If necessary figures might be available to help players interested but without an army for this period.

What do people think?

Bob
RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by RonanTheLibrarian »

Like the idea generally; not sure how the terrain would work, but I think having it pre-set by the players would make the battlefields a little more realistic in that armies would have chosen much more "user-friendly" ground than we usually get in a competition game.

I like the removal of the new unit auto-break rule, as I think allowing average to break at the same level of loss as superior (and even elite in some cases) goes too far and devalues the extra cost of the latter - and I speak as someone likely to bring an almost entirely average (especially the actual commander) Henrician army.

Might I suggest changing the time-frame to 1494-1525, as it limits the amount of firearm troops - what do people think?
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kevinj
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by kevinj »

It's good to know that Fog R will be an option next year, so thanks to Bob for getting that organised.

The Italian Wars theme is good, although I feel that if you're including the Turks it seems strange to exclude their neighbours the Hungarians (and their revolting peasants). You may wish to also exclude the Danish and Swedish peasant options as the Danish and Swedish armies aren't included.

Regarding the other questions:
1) Points. If the upper limit is a 3 hr 15 min game then 800 is plenty. Looking at the results from this year's games, only 4 out of 20 resulted in a win for one side. That's 20%, normally you'd expect to see around 50% of the games end decisively.
2) I can remember when preset terrain was the norm and there's no way I'd want to go back to it. I can see the need for events like the Southern League where you're looking to fit an extra game in, but I'd rather lose because my opponent does something clever than because I get a table with totally unsuitable terrain.
3) Amendments. Assuming the official update has been published by then I recommend using it as that is what all of the major competitions will be doing. Regarding the autobreak levels, it's worth pointing out that the intent of the change is to make Average troops (which should after all represent the majority) more viable and remove the need for theme restrictions on proportions of Average to Superior.
RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by RonanTheLibrarian »

kevinj wrote:3) Amendments. Assuming the official update has been published by then I recommend using it as that is what all of the major competitions will be doing. Regarding the autobreak levels, it's worth pointing out that the intent of the change is to make Average troops (which should after all represent the majority) more viable and remove the need for theme restrictions on proportions of Average to Superior.
The problem is, that all you are getting for your extra Superior payment is a re-roll on a 1 (usually another 1 in my case!). On that basis, shouldn't we be looking at reducing the cost of Superior troops, even if only by 1 point per base?
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viking123
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by viking123 »

A number of armies over the weekend were close to breaking. In my last game I was 1 point off breaking and Brendan 3 points. The game between Patrick and Bob Lorton was a mutual destruction. I heard other games were the one player was within a couple of points from breaking.
A few extra minutes by using pre-set terrain would have seen a number of game see a complete destruction of one players army.
The reason I have suggested two players designing a pre-set terrain map is to stop one player making it suitable for their army. Also we can add the idea we used at Oxford of allowing each player to move one item of terrain each.
I like bigger games - 900 points for singles and 1000 points for Doubles. I feel that the armies at Attack! were more balanced being 900 points.
However, I have made it clear that all the suggestions I have put in the proposal for next year are open to change if the players do not like them.
kevinj
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by kevinj »

you get the re-roll on Shooting, Melee, Cohesion Tests and CMTs. If you take "Re-roll a 1" literally I suppose it's not much help! But realistically it's often the different between passing or failing. At the moment it's largely a no-brainer to take all the Superiors you can.
RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by RonanTheLibrarian »

kevinj wrote:At the moment it's largely a no-brainer to take all the Superiors you can.
But bloody annoying when average troops hold out even longer - which is another factor in why there were fewer results, as average troops broke on >40% losses last year. Given that part of the thinking behind the rule amendments was to make games quicker and get more "results", this one does seem to have backfired a wee bit.

As regards what Bob said, I would add that 3 players were novices and hence took a lot longer to set up and play through a turn than you would normally expect. I would also agree with him that 900 points makes a more balanced army, although whether that will be equally true of Italian Wars forces is another matter.
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viking123
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by viking123 »

If we change the date of the Italian Wars covered by the competition to only those from 1494 to 1526 then the list of armies available will be: -
Maximillian Imperial,
Italian Wars French,
Trastamaran Spanish,
Italian States,
Italian Wars Venetian,
German States,
Early Henrician English,
Later Henrician English,
Scottish,
Border Reivers,
Irish,
Anglo Irish,
Caroline Imperialists

Bob
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by Vespasian28 »

If all the new amendments are taken up you might as well include the Swiss as they are no longer as potent due to the autobreak change. Trouble is to field a proper Swiss army they now all need to be elites!
RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by RonanTheLibrarian »

I think the lists should include a Duchy of Grand Fenwick army.
"No plan survives the first contact with the dice."

"There is something wrong with our bloody dice today!"
RonanTheLibrarian
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by RonanTheLibrarian »

viking123 wrote:If we change the date of the Italian Wars covered by the competition to only those from 1494 to 1526...
May I suggest 1525, as 1526 allows firearms to certain French troop types instead of crossbows? For most other armies in the above list, that change comes in the 1530s and 1540s, so not an issue.
"No plan survives the first contact with the dice."

"There is something wrong with our bloody dice today!"
viking123
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Re: Attack! 2018

Post by viking123 »

I can confirm that the date and theme for Attack! 2018 is: -
Attack! 2018
21st/22nd July 2018
Italian Wars from 1494 to 1526
Rules: - FOGR with all amendments publish at that time.
Scale: - 15mm
Points: - 900 points
Format – Singles competition with 4 x 3hour 15minute games
Armies: -
Maximillian Imperial,
Italian Wars French,
Trastamaran Spanish,
Italian States,
Italian Wars Venetian,
German States
Swiss,
Early Henrician English,
Scottish,
Border Reivers,
Irish,
Anglo Irish,
Caroline Imperialists,
Duchy of Grand Fenwick
Venue: Devizes School, The Green, Devizes, Wiltshire SN10 3AG
Fee: TBA but at least £20.
Closing date for entries will be Friday 29th June 2018 – this might be extended by a week but down to the Devizes & District Wargames Group
List checker: - Brendan Morrissey – lists should be submitted at least two weeks before the competition to allow time for checking.
Competition Special Rules: -
• Any heavy or medium artillery must be in the first BG's to be deployed.
• No musket armed troops of any type.
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