Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

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GottaLove88s
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by GottaLove88s »

Sounds great Justin... I need to DL v3 and get into Fuel Depot again!

Amaris' real engineer code would be a fun addition... Quick warning tho: If you use the code from today's GJS'44 Tourney release, remember to re-activate it for US_engineers... US engineers were deactivated in GJS'44 because having them there created an error (since they weren't in our Brits/Canadians & Germans squads.csv)

I suspect I'm uselessly teaching Grandpa to suck eggs, lol, but don't hesitate to PM me if that doesn't make sense...
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

lol... I will PM you with any questions, thanks again.
Would love to do some play testing of fuel depot with you if you get the time. I know you've been a busy boy!
arcticpost
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by arcticpost »

How long should the download take? I've tried 3 times now and I get a "download starting" but nada for up to 15 minutes before I give up. Blacks out my screen too though I still get the BA song playing.
GottaLove88s
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by GottaLove88s »

New map looks gorgeous Justin... Just downloaded v3... Two games up and offered... 8)
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347
morge4
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by morge4 »

great stuff! enjoying the new units for Germans.
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

arcticpost wrote:How long should the download take? I've tried 3 times now and I get a "download starting" but nada for up to 15 minutes before I give up. Blacks out my screen too though I still get the BA song playing.
Hi Arctic

The file is truely only 5MB so I would think, not long. Try again perhaps? Maybe something was up with the server.
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

First bug to report from v3 ! There needs to be a tweak to the GetThreat(x,y) logic for the second reinforcement for Allies.
It is possible for the german tanks to be in such a position as to devestate them upon entry of the reinforcements, directly behind them :shock: if the germans happen to be running the "loop around them" strategy of attack. It is a simple fix I can put in for the final initial release version.
ERommel
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by ERommel »

FUEL DEPOT 3

My impression so far

US Units are too strong compared to German Units
Game seems to favor the US side as it is extremely difficult for the German side.

Suggested Fix for Version 4:

1) German Side Needs to be Stronger
If you wish to keep the US side as is, add more German units from the beginning. If you wish to keep the German side as is (mainly infantry with tanks) add more Infantry. If you wish to keep the number of German units as is I would suggest support units. More motar units for example.

2) US Deployment
To better simulate the actual battle I would suggest having the US side begin with much weaker units. These were mainly second line troops in the Ardennes sector. Once the Germans begin the assault regular US troops as well as tanks could come in as reinforcements. Perhaps giving the German side 3 turns before US elite troops come on the map. If possible, have the reinforcements come in randomly to avoid it being gamey.

3) More Troop Transport vehicles for the US Side
I found deploying the US side quite fun. The Germans are coming but the map is nicely sized to make it fun thinking about a deployment strategy. So while the battle rages at the front line, the US side can move units around to work out an effective defence. 2 jeeps is fun as the limited number of transport vehicles forces the US side to prioritise which non mobile units he will redeploy. I would suggest adding 2 trucks however to make it possible to move infantry squads as well by transport.

Thank you for making this exciting game.
Imagine yourself acclaimed, a decorated national hero, an idol to millions of desperate people, then within six months, condemned to death by hanging.
- Joachim Peiper
GottaLove88s
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by GottaLove88s »

Cryptic end to my first game... My US opponent (who shall remain nameless unless they'd like to 'fess up?) just surrendered at turn 3, with the chat comment "He needs to come up with Version 4"... No further info... I'd killed one, he'd killed two... Most bizarre?

From what I'd seen so far, it was looking pretty good... Great maps, good terrain for both tanks and grunts... Useful unit mix...

I'll be tied up releasing the GJS'44 campaign maps for June 10th PM this weekend, but want to get back to Fuel Depot next week. Nice work Justin!
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347
ERommel
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by ERommel »

I quit the 3 or 4 games early as well. It was obvious to me from the get go that the game begins with the US side much too strong. I agree with you though that it looks like a very promising game. The map is cool and the idea is amazing. Just needs some more tweeking.
Imagine yourself acclaimed, a decorated national hero, an idol to millions of desperate people, then within six months, condemned to death by hanging.
- Joachim Peiper
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

I recogize the issue being described about how the US side seems to be overly strong, but I'm concerned it is just an illusion derived from the gameplay usually found in BA. I mean, you can roll in there with 3 king tigers if you so elect in purchasing! Those suckers are hard to kill if supported with infantry correctly.
I may make two versions of the game, one general and one hardcore, to address how it isn't seemingly easy to win as the germans? That is of course if I cannot find a better balancing before then such that neither the german-side player nor the US-side player are scared away...
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

GottaLove88s wrote:From what I'd seen so far, it was looking pretty good... Great maps, good terrain for both tanks and grunts... Useful unit mix...

I'll be tied up releasing the GJS'44 campaign maps for June 10th PM this weekend, but want to get back to Fuel Depot next week. Nice work Justin!
Jon, I'd like to play you in a pair of mirror games when you get the chance, to dialog over all the points of view on the feedbacks with me.
please PM me if interested.
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

By the way, I have won as germans side 2X and as Allies side 1X during play testing of V3. I have lost as germans 1X and as Allies 1X so far, with about 5 games still in progress. I do like some of ERommel's suggested fixes for balance, such as making the US starting position a bit weaker. But I will say, I can usually capture the first flag within 5 turns as germans, and that sends the germans a fairly large set of reinforcements. Capturing the second flag is much more tedious, requires some luck and skill both perhaps, without losing lots of ground forces. If as germans you are delayed in getting your last group of reinforcements from the second flag, you can be in lots of trouble as they arrive too late to make a difference. So the scenario is somewhat about having "strategic" tactical plans.

Speaking of ground forces. Most BA players use ground troops to probe, of course I do this too in many many maps.
That is somewhat the point of my scenario design; break the common mode of thinking of the players (both sides!).
I think you can win if you adopt the correct tactics!
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

ERommel wrote: 3) More Troop Transport vehicles for the US Side
I found deploying the US side quite fun. The Germans are coming but the map is nicely sized to make it fun thinking about a deployment strategy. So while the battle rages at the front line, the US side can move units around to work out an effective defence. 2 jeeps is fun as the limited number of transport vehicles forces the US side to prioritise which non mobile units he will redeploy. I would suggest adding 2 trucks however to make it possible to move infantry squads as well by transport.
Just in case you didn't try it, the jeeps can also carry an infantry squad.
I had a couple trucks available for US forces in V1 of the scenario, but took them out.
I will look to see if I can put them back and move some US units further from the front line if there are trucks added.
The savy s.o.b.'s I was playing in V1 used the resulting 4 total transports to really pile into the front line positions...
That is mainly why I took them out. If you lose the jeeps though you'll have serious mobility problems.
Maybe trucks instead of jeeps (goto jeeps = 0) would play better?
arcticpost
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by arcticpost »

Hey jc, sorry, had intertoobs trouble the past couple days so I'll try downloading it again tonight. Crossed bayonets...
morge4
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by morge4 »

I have to say I feel this is well balanced. The Germans can win, just need to employ the proper tactics and take care of your flanks. Yes, the single road up the middle is tough but it can be done...just remember XXX Corps in Market Garden (they had the same issue and managed to press on). Germans need to ensure they use their Infantry wisely to protect the Tigers/KT's flanks. The addition of some stronger German infantry has helped since V1, they can support those volks a bit.

All in all, I think JCB has put together a nice little scenario...my hats off to him!

My record so far is 2 German wins and 1 Allied win.
ERommel
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by ERommel »

FUEL DEPOT 3 GERMANY TAKES THE FIRST FLAG.jpg
FUEL DEPOT 3 GERMANY TAKES THE FIRST FLAG.jpg (158.29 KiB) Viewed 7583 times
Since you asked for feedback and play testing I decided to post some of the significant turns. I still have the opinion that more balancing should be done in the beginning to help the German side. Perhaps allowing the German side to have more units to begin with from the current reinforcement pool without necessarily "adding" to the German side. Or, perhaps there is a way to limit the US player from deploying superior forces in the front line for the first 3 turns. I would like to see a simulation of an initial "shock" that would give the German player an advantage for the first 3 turns. May I suggest that the first flag be defended by tired line guards and or military police with limited weapons. Once the alarm is sounded the US soldier must use whatever available trucks he can muster to move regular troops to the front. Should he rush forward or let the first flag fall? is the question the US soldier should face. Another alternative would be to add another flag called "outer sector" of something like that. Once again, I would love to see a simulation of an initial "shock" to the US side.

Here is an image of my current game. "20 turns to go" and I just managed to take the first flag. Thank God for smoke!

Does anyone recognize this ongoing game? :mrgreen:
Last edited by ERommel on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Imagine yourself acclaimed, a decorated national hero, an idol to millions of desperate people, then within six months, condemned to death by hanging.
- Joachim Peiper
jcb989
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by jcb989 »

Thanks E. Its good getting feedback.

Has anyone found the easter egg PDF that I put in the scenario folder by the way?
Its a brief description of the 612st TD battalion in action at Honsfeld.

I told a couple play testers about it, but just remembered again..
GottaLove88s
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by GottaLove88s »

Found it last night when I was checking out ur squads.csv... Nice background!
SCENARIO LINKS
Seelow'45 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=313&t=55132
Normandy'44 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42094
Dieppe'42 -> www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=42347
arcticpost
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Re: Version 3 Ready! Capture The Fuel Depot

Post by arcticpost »

Hey jc, still nothing.
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